yuletide_coal | The Dirty Energy Source

The Dirty Energy Source

Do you want to make a spreadsheet about spreadsheets?
Do you still need to figure out what two other fandoms you should request beside the only one you really want fic for?
Or are you trolling ALL the letter posts for placeholders, just so you can write those people some nice, dry coal?

We want to know all about it.

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I've never seen animal abuse listed as a typical darkfic component. Instant backbutton for me, unfortunately.

wait someone *asked* for that?! Kill/enslave/torture a person all you damn well please in your fics but if you kick a dog I'mma drop that asap.

i've never understood this tbh

it always seems like ~edgy teenager misanthropy~ when someone can watch all the Saw movies but can't handle a fictional animal getting shot

I'm reminded of the cat scene that everyone flipped out over in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo movie. It's like seriously, out of everything that happened in the movie, THAT is what makes you most upset? Talk about skewed priorities.

yep

I have friends that can watch humans die and be tortured to kingdom come but will absolutely ragequit something they otherwise liked if an animal dies and I just can't understand it. I figured most people left the "animals are pure and innocent, humans are corrupt and evil and deserve what they get" mentality behind in 10th grade.

I, on my part, thought that the whole "People have different opinions and feelings than you, for valid reasons, and that is okay!" mentality was something you learned in the first grade.

Also, it's pretty amazing that you can read so much into my post. All I said was that I was surprised that it was on the list in the first place, and that it made me backbutton. That's it.

Anyway, I'm bowing out after posting this reply. Unlike certain people, I'm not on Coal for the wank.

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-22 23:20 (UTC) - Expand

+10000000000

Also people that will donate money to animal charities but can't be bothered to donate to ones for children or the ill, or even give a dollar to a homeless person on the street?

Side eye to the max.

Sooo I did specify that was my opinion *in fics.* Real life violence against people/animals is a different thing?

Did you miss the part where I said "also" or?

I'm flattered that you care about my opinion enough to get defensive, but I don't how you justify what you do or don't do in your life, fictional habits or not. It's something that I side eye and will forever remember about you if you point that out or do it around me. I'm not calling up the NSA to get your butt put on a list.

I don't like kids. I do like my dog.

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-23 03:18 (UTC) - Expand

It's just a pretty common squick. I'm not sure what there is to understand about it.

I agree with you but you don't want to start this debate. Every time it comes up people barge in with the "it's an emotional reaction and emotions aren't rational!" and "animals are nice to me and people are mean!" circlejerk.

AYRT

*Shrugs* it's just a personal opinion. I dunno, I work 9-5 at an animal shelter and I've seen a lot of heartbreaking stuff; I guess living in a fairly safe community I'm a lot further removed from eye-witness violence against people?

I love Saw, can't watch/read animal cruelty (skip those scenes in American Psycho every time).

I think my squick is rooted in 'comprehension' or 'understanding'. An adult typically understands what is happening to them, and maybe has more of a chance to get away. An animal (or baby/young child - it extends there) can't.

Yeah those prostitutes and that homeless man totally had a chance in American Psycho.

That's what I don't get - being fine with violence being wreaked on fictional vulnerable humans but then kicking up a fuss over violence inflicted on an equally fictional animal.

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-23 02:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-23 02:20 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-24 11:04 (UTC) - Expand

I always thought it went hand in hand with the people who don't want bad things happening to kids, something to do with them going in the, "Protect the helpless," section of some people's hindbrain. Usually I only see it applied to pet-type animals, considering your average person gives zero fucks about where and how our food is made. Kick a puppy? Monster. The average living conditions of chickens? Who cares so long as the food's cheap.

iirc altruism in animals is based on how closely related one animal is to another, so it isn't surprising we'd feel more for mammals (puppies, cows, dolphins) than we would for other animals (chickens, sharks, lizards)

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-23 01:22 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-23 01:28 (UTC) - Expand

CSB.

Sorry, I can watch people die on tv/fic but omg I refuse to watch shit like The Roommate because I know a cat is killed in it at one point.

AYRT

Not directly, but a lot of people said they'd love anything on the list except for suicide or whatever, and well... Animal abuse was on that list, so.

I was just surprised it was included in that list in the first place. I've never seen it as a typical part of darkfic.

I was one of those people. (Well, I never said "except suicide." I think I said "look, it's a list of all my favorite things" or something like that.) Animal abuse isn't actually a big thing for me but neither am I opposed to it (obviously we're talking about fiction here). Mostly because the things that really work for me are hurting sentient characters. If the animal abuse is being used to hurt a sentient character then yes, otherwise I'm not bothered by it but it doesn't particularly attract me.

But you're right, it kind of stuck out to me on that list too, in terms of not seeming like a common darkfic element.

OP here:

It's in the post because it was part of the long list of tropes that one of our fellow coalies provided. Personally, I don't like any physically violent tropes, but kick-the-dog has long been a cheap (in plot/character building terms) way of labeling villains in various media, so I can't really see much argument against its inclusion in the list per se. However, it is - along with some of the others (child abuse, yeah, that's another major DNW for me here) - real-world nasty enough that I stuck the whole trope list behind a cut.

But I could do more here. Add a warning that certain tropes may be triggering? Suggest that writers tag with tropes used as well as 'crueltide'? Place certain tropes behind a spoiler cut as well?

-for_sorrow

I don't think you need to place the tropes behind a spoiler cut - the mere mention of it as part of a long list of darkfic tropes is unlikely to be triggering. It's not like you're providing examples or detailed descriptions.

Adding a suggestion that the tropes be tagged might be nice, but I'd frame it as an enticement for other darkfic readers, not a warning.

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-23 06:55 (UTC) - Expand

Frankly I was already annoyed that you phrased your post like "Why Crueltide?
Because darkfic isn't to everyone's taste." Like, making the post about "let's have a post because people don't like darkfic" instead of "let's have a post for people who DO like darkfic."

Re: Crueltide

(Anonymous) - 2014-10-23 14:56 (UTC) - Expand

You can list that as a DNW and still participate in the challenge, you know. You don't have to be open to every single thing on the list.

It's listed as a DNW in my letter because I can't deal... I still need to do my crueltide comment or do I?

Kill humans? Cool. Kick babies? Awesome.

Hit a puppy?

DDDDDDDDDDDDD:

NO Y U HATE ME.

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