yuletide_coal | Afterburn

Same here. Also someone who wrote me a nice email instead of commenting.

Huh, so you had two recipients one of whom emailed you and the other contacted you on tumblr?

What are the odds.

Echoing above anon's comment of 'kids these days'.

If somebody did that to me, I would side-eye them so hard.

WHY ARE YOU NOT PREPARED TO ADMIT IN PUBLIC THAT YOU LIKED THIS FIC?

AYRT

Honestly? If someone sent me a private message telling me thank you for my gift fic, I would straight up ask them to comment.

Obviously my reply would go a bit more like,

a) I'm so glad you liked it, thank you for this message

but also

b) This gift exchange has a strong tradition of thanks posted on the work itself, and this is important to me. Could you please leave me a short comment there to show that you approve of the gift?

Wow, that sounds rude and demanding to me, especially since YOU, the author, aren't hurt by your recip failing to (be seen to) comment; if anything, people will feel sorry for you.

I guess I'd do it, if an author asked me to, but I'd bitch about it in private.

Do you really think that's so entitled? Earnest question here.

It is important to me to get a comment where other people can see it. I care about that. I'm proud of it. And that's also the exchange norm.

Are you saying that becaus you feel it's too much pressure to comment in public, so contacting the author privately is a compromise for you? It's definitely better to get a private comment from a recipient than no comment at all.

But it seems kind of staggering to me: I'm putting my creative writing out there, to be publicly read and judged, and all the recipient is putting out there is a comment. (Presumably, the recipient is also publishing their creative writing in a public space, or there are bigger problems with their approach to the exchange.) Why is that easier than commenting in public?

No, I comment in public all the time. But if I had emailed my author or used some other system - because it was convenient for me, presumably - then being asked to repeat that process via AO3, which for whatever reason was apparently less convenient for me, does sound very entitled. It comes across as yet another round of people complaining about other people giving them feedback "the wrong way," which I think is about the worst thing any of us can do to an already-dying comment culture.

But then, the thing I care about as an author is getting the feedback, not about other people seeing it. That is honestly a completely alien mindset to me. What do I care if other people read my recip's feedback to the gift I gave them? The only way I can see it mattering at all is on occasions like this thread, and here if a recip is observed apparently not commenting, it reflects badly on them, not on me.

AYRT

I guess I didn't think about convenience reasons that might lie behind their choice of medium. But I'm still a little puzzled by that argument - is it really so much easier to send an email than to comment on a gift fic? Or to tumblr? You have to actually look those things up - often to the point of stalking your author! Not to mention that in an exchange with an anonymous period, the recipient would need to wait until the anonymous period is over in order to contact their author. Doing that because of delaying circumstances seems OK to me; doing that deliberately seems rude.

Perhaps you are assuming exchanges with more varied set ups rather than just Yuletide. I am only thinking of Yuletide atm.

already-dying comment culture

People say that a lot; I am not sure if comment culture is actually dying. For my part, I have already left over 60 comments on Yuletide fics.

The only way I can see it mattering at all is on occasions like this thread, and here if a recip is observed apparently not commenting, it reflects badly on them, not on me.

Well, either you or another anon upthread mentioned pity for the author, and I don't particularly want pity. :) I think we do have a different mind-set here. As I said, it is important to me to have the comments appear on my actual work. I like being able to read them all there. I like that someone might come along later and see my work and see the comment and see the tick of validation that I successfully gave a gift. Maybe that's a little weird, but I don't think I'm alone.

ayrt

I don't really figure it's any of my business why they felt it was easier to comment on some other platform. I certainly don't feel the need to worry about whether they had what I would consider a good enough reason for doing so. I pretty much give them the benefit of the doubt.

People say that a lot; I am not sure if comment culture is actually dying. For my part, I have already left over 60 comments on Yuletide fics.

Yeah, but you're one person. I made a point of writing a bunch of comments for YT this year, too, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether commenting as a whole is down, and AFAIK people have been reporting lower comment counts almost across the board. Even the "big" YT fics seem to get fewer than in the past. (That's anecdotal; I haven't gone and collected data and compared. But I've written mid-sized hits for YT a couple of times in years past, and even the most popular fics these last few years haven't gotten as many comments as I got. That's a pretty major indicator to me of comment culture dying.)

I think we do have a different mind-set here.

Yeah, I think you're right. In any case, to answer your earnest question from earlier: yes, that request still would sound entitled to me as a recip and comment-leaver.

AYRT

Well, thanks for answering me seriously. I will think about what you have said. In any case, what I said to the person would probably be more polite than the example I dashed off earlier.

ayrt

Hah, well, you're welcome! I'm kind of not used to people thanking me for arguing with them. :)

DA, but the thing I care about as an author is getting sincere feedback. A recip who goes out of their way to track me down on another platform so they can send send me feedback in secret is going to leave me concerned that the fic was so bad they were embarrassed to be seen praising it.

I feel exactly the reverse about emailed feedback. I feel like someone who contacted me directly to give feedback *doesn't* care about what they're expected to do or be seen to do; they loved my story so much they want to speak to me directly.

NA

Could you explain to me how emailing is more direct? Because commenting goes to your email (or possibly just your AO3 inbox), I view it as exactly the same, except a comment is public and the 'private' way is obviously private.

I too would think that someone was "hiding" something. And because all of our stories HAVE to be public, to the point where people will keep a fic Anon, orphan, or move authorship to a sock, I think it's a little unfair.

How would you feel if an author commented on their own fic and c&p your comment? Or if they logged out and c&p your comment?

I think that if you comment then you "own" that comment and can edit it/reply to it as you will, but when you e-mail the comment then your author "owns" it, and they can make it public if they so please.

da

I could see it being a holdover for some people from when a lot of fic was on personal websites? The one time I have privately emailed someone feedback on their fic, it was hosted on a geocities site and that was literally the only way I could tell the person how much I loved their fic. I could see that still being ingrained in some people's minds as "how to tell how someone HOW MUCH I like their fic."

Also, you might say stuff in an email you'd be unwilling to in public! Like, "how you handled this character's grief in the fic really spoke to me, because my father died last year and I felt a lot of the same things you wrote the character feeling."

It's also worth remembering that not everyone reads fic posted to AO3 on AO3, or reads it while logged in to AO3. People have all sorts of weird preferences, habits, and ways of reading fic. People would probably boggle at the hoops I jump through to get fic sorted just the way I want it for when I sit down to actually read it, and then the subsequent hoops I jump through to keep track of which tics I've read and want to comment on. It absolutely wouldn't surprise me that there are people for whom download fic from AO3->read->stalk author on tumblr->send message via tumblr seems like the most perfectly simple and logical way to go about things. For instance they may downloading to ereader and comment later as they go on a phone where it is easier to message via the tumblr app than open up the AO3 web page, log in, and attempt to type into a comment box (NB. I do not understand tumblr so I could be wrong about this).

I get that readers have preferences over which tech and platforms they use, but hey, so do authors!

If my recip decided to stalk me on Tumblr and send me feedback as an ask, I would never see their feedback, because I don't check the askbox on that account. That's not how I choose to use Tumblr.

I honestly think it shouldn't be too much effort to acknowledge gifts on the platform where they were received. If a giftfic was posted for you on DW, take five seconds to comment on DW. If it was posted on AO3, comment on AO3.

The idea that the onus is on an author to be obsessively checking every account they have on every internet service they've ever used just in case the recip decides one of those is more convenient, seems like bullshit special snowflakism to me.

The idea that the onus is on an author to be obsessively checking every account they have on every internet service they've ever used just in case the recip decides one of those is more convenient, seems like bullshit special snowflakism to me.

Whereas the idea that the onus is on the commenter to discern which method would be most convenient for the author (and no, comments on AO3 are not going to be the most convenient method of feedback for every author; we all just suck it up and deal) seems like bullshit special snowflakism to me.

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-13 22:47 (UTC) - Expand

NA

Jesus Christ, we're talking about like five people out of the two thousand who did Yuletide here, not a sudden epidemic.

I'd prefer to get my feedback at AO3 too, but at this point I will take it WHEREVER people choose to send it. I now count bookmarks as feedback too, even though I used to wonder why the hell they couldn't cut and paste the amazing things they said into the comment box. Now IDGAF, I just make sure to check there too.

Good comments are so thin on the ground these days, our 60 comment leaving friend aside, that I will literally accept and welcome them anywhere. (Though if tumblr doesn't send notifications I'll never see those, given I wouldn't know how to check to save my life.)

Nobody is suggesting that (although I would point out that plenty of people also don't check their AO3 notifications). Commenters can give feedback however they want but if they want to guarantee their author seeing it they need to do it on the AO3. But if they don't much care ... and vice versa, if an author wants to get every single bit of feedback someone's ever given them they need to either check or close their askbox, stalk their own pinboard, whatever. If they don't much care, that's fine too.

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-13 23:44 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

It's more direct because it comes to me straight from them, rather than through the medium of the AO3. It's more personal for the same reason, and obviously it's also private. I don't find comment notifications and emails to be equally personal or direct.

I guess whether or not I would feel they were hiding something would depend on what they said to me? And also perhaps the content of the fic (i.e. if I'd written really kinky porn and someone preferred to email me than leave a public comment). But honestly I think that's quite a paranoid reach. I think people who are concerned about that would tend to be people who are very concerned themselves about what people who read their comments think (maybe justified if, say, you're a BNF). But I pretty much assume nobody gives a shit about what fic I like, which I think is true for a majority of fans.

How would you feel if an author commented on their own fic and c&p your comment? Or if they logged out and c&p your comment?

I think that if you comment then you "own" that comment and can edit it/reply to it as you will, but when you e-mail the comment then your author "owns" it, and they can make it public if they so please.

I strongly disagree that things that are emailed privately are OK to be made public without permission, whether that's comments, confessions, chatty personal emails, whatever. Do not publish something that someone has emailed to you without asking them first (unless it's harassment or something that needs to be made public).

da

I strongly disagree that things that are emailed privately are OK to be made public without permission, whether that's comments, confessions, chatty personal emails, whatever. Do not publish something that someone has emailed to you without asking them first (unless it's harassment or something that needs to be made public).

Wow, yes, that would creep me way out and also make me pretty mad. I would almost certainly not be giving that author ANY feedback again if I could help it. You can bet I'd tell my friends, too.

da

A problem neatly solved by posting the comment in public yourself first.

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-14 07:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-14 09:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-14 13:00 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-14 20:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-14 23:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-14 23:56 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Yuletide 2014 Non-Commenters - L-Z

(Anonymous) - 2015-01-15 00:11 (UTC) - Expand

I think I'd cast it more like this: I'm so glad you liked it, and thanks for letting me know! But because this gift exchange has a strong tradition of thanks posted on the work itself, a lack of a comment may be taken by others as indication that you're not an appreciative recipient. I wouldn't want you to miss out on future gifts, or be thought of badly in future exchanges, so you might want to just drop a quick comment, and I'll thank you again and refer to our email exchange if you don't want to copy/paste the whole thing.

AYRT

Perhaps. Obviously my comment above was quickly dashed off and I would put more thought into a real reply to a recipient who had emailed me. Part (a) would also be a lot longer and friendlier.

In a weird way, though, I'd feel more honest saying "this is important to me" than the level of "I am only concerned about your fandom reputation" in your comment.

*shrugs*