yuletide_coal | It's a Coal (w)rap Battle

Maybe it's because I'm toward the older end of the spectrum, but I'm a tad more sympathetic. He seems to belong to the generation when gay wasn't okay, especially among men. A lot of those guys are still squicked by the idea of two men having sex. If you didn't live through the 70's and 80's and have gay friends during that period, you may not realize how ingrained those things were, and just how dangerous it could be to be gay.

I'm a lot more concerned about how people treat other real people than about what they want to see their fictional characters doing. In other words, if you treat real gays respectfully, I really don't care what your inner feelings are, or what you want to see in fic. Until I hear about him harassing or otherwise mistreating real people, I'm going to cut him some slack.

NAYRT

Around what age group is untherius?

From the college dates on his lj, probably around 40, but he vibes older. Small town background, maybe?

AYRT who would write Emberverse except homophobia

I'm 41. Born in 1974, raised by hippy parents, got The Talk about the nice man that my piano teacher Mr. G____ lived with in 1980, joined my first professional theater company in 1983, had more gay friends (out and not) than straight friends from 9th grade onwards.

But, you know, thanks for assuming that the reason I'm not cutting him any slack (unlike your experienced and yet perfectly enlightened ass, of course) is that I'm just ~too young~ to have lived through the years when things were Really Dangerous for gay people.

Newsflash: It is still dangerous to be gay.

Additional newsflash: There are many, many, many people who lived through the 70's and 80's and manage not to go around being homophobes.

DA

I feel like someone ought to say somethin. The best I can come up with is "I'm glad you're here." Like not as a fic author or a decent human being, just in general.

I'm good at writing about people, not to them.

+1

Squicked by the idea of two men having sex is very different than an offhand sentence about two men holding hands, or being married, or one having a boyfriend, all of which are automatically out with "no slash" as a DA explained.

Yeah, but what do most people really mean when they say "no slash"? I know that there's one of my fandoms that I might say it regarding, and I would simply mean that I don't see the main characters as gay, and please don't write them that way. To me, "no slash" wouldn't mean "don't mention the possibility of two guys being married" - now maybe I'm the exception?

There is such a long fannish history of bad attitudes to slash that yes, most people who see "no slash" will interpret it as "ew, gay" (or at the very least "ew, slash") rather than "I prefer canon pairings or sexualities for my nominated characters". And even that, tbh, I don't rly love.

DA

I think there is a difference between putting "no slash" in DNWs, and saying "Only het ships for Draco, please". I wouldn't have any problem with the latter. I've said "only femslash ships for (x character), please" before, so I'd be a bit hypocritical if I did. xD

Honestly, I think the best option instead of "Only het ships for Draco, please" is to just say "I like Draco/Pansy, Draco/Hermione, and Draco/Ginny" which are, coincidentally, all het ships.

AYRT

Yes, I agree that that's the best option! But it doesn't work for someone who wants Draco and would be fine with pretty much any het ship (or even excited to get a rare!ship), but doesn't want slash.

(I have some female characters that I identify with and wouldn't be happy to read het about, while being 100% okay with any femslash ship. So I know about the issue from that perspective.)

I would just be safe rather than sorry (no need to make the person reading your letter annoyed) and mention what pairings you do want or dont mind having in your fic. Saying "I only really ship xyz for the requested characters" sounds a lot better to me. Personally, I always do this because Im a monoshipper and its more of a pain to list all the pairings I dont want.

Some people mean "I don't want the main pairing in the story to be non-het" and some people mean "I will flip my lid if a minor character in the background mentions her wife in passing." And since there's no way to tell which, people are likely to assume the latter.

+1

+2

I don't want a background mention of Luna/Ginny to cause my recip to leave a stiff "thank you for writing" comment on my epic Harry and Neville fight space!demons together in a very heterosexual manner story.

Maybe what we really need are different terms to distinguish the two. Remember that kink-shaming post last year, and how most of us felt that saying no to something didn't mean OMG you're sick for being into that? Well, not getting turned on from reading explicit slash (or het) doesn't make one a homophobe (or hetrophobe). Neither does simply not seeing a particular character as gay or straight. And right now, there's no way to say that without either risking pissing off your author or jumping through linguistic hoops.

or hetrophobe

hmmmmmmmmmmm

Lol

There are quite a few ways.

"In this fandom, I've requested Harry & Draco. I don't ship them - I ship Harry/Hermione, Harry/Ginny, and Draco/Luna. If you're writing shippy fic, please only those three ships. :)"

"In this fandom, I only really ship the canon ships. Thanks!"

"If you're a porn writer, I would love to read porn for Snape/McGonagall, Luna/Dean, and Colin/Parvati. Other ships are fine, but I'm only into explicit fic for those pairings, sorry."

Etc.

Sure, there's no easy way to say "I'm not a homophobe, but please don't write me slash or femslash." You have to use your words.

Re: Letter judging post again

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Re: Letter judging post again

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Re: Letter judging post again

(Anonymous) - 2015-10-26 22:47 (UTC) - Expand

I run into this problem, mentally. Generally when I say 'no slash', I mean 'not in this fandom/for these characters'. There are some fandoms where I like a slash pairing - since I'm watching MeTV right now, Emergency! for example, or Fraser/RayK in Due South - but in most of my fandoms, I'm not interested. So I fret about how to express that without offense.

Re: Letter judging post again

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Re: Letter judging post again

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Re: Letter judging post again

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Re: Letter judging post again

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Re: Letter judging post again

(Anonymous) - 2015-10-26 22:07 (UTC) - Expand

But are they squicked by the idea of two women having sex?

what's your point?

... "gays" ...

as A Gay, I'm afraid I can't agree. One of the ways you treat Real Gays, like the Real Gays who might be browsing your letter or assigned to you, is not to say or imply that "ewwwww, gayyyyyyy".