yuletide_coal | Coalclaw Adventures

What is the issue that so many people have with the comics rules? I'm very new to comics, so I've missed a lot of the discussion on it. What are some of the canons that are facing issues under the rules?

"short run titles that are tightly linked to major crossover events" stopped me nominating Thors which made me sad.

I would have loved Thors case!fic. Hell, I might have even written Thors case!fic. :(

Is there no one in larger Marvel fandom writing Thor, though? Yuletide is about getting fic you can't get elsewhere.

I don't think they mean Thor the character. In that series it means something else.

You shut your whore mouth!

No one is writing Thors.

Thors =/= Thor

Thors is a comic about the police on Battleworld.

Well done falling into the exact trap the mods do every year of looking at the title but not knowing at all what it is about.

Well done for demonstrating that you, sadly like the yuletide mods, have no idea what you're talking about.

+1 lol excellent trolling

http://failfandomanonwiki.pbworks.com/w/page/49192965/Yuletide%20Wanks%20by%20Year#ComicsEligibilityWank

The main effect of the rules change this year was to ban anything with Secret Wars on the cover, no questions asked. A lot of people were deeply unhappy with this, especially the banning of the alternate-universe series that had finished already and had not connected back to main Marvel continuity. There was great wank. The mods ended up backing down.

Are you familiar with the Gwen Stacy situation in 2013?

The mods claim to be comics experts who don't need anyone to help them with comics eligibility despite knowing fuck all about what they're doing and not actually participating in comics fandom.

Somebody who requests comics fandoms might want to jump in if I missed anything or got something wrong, this is just what I've picked up from watching (I'm a comics fan but never request or nom because I don't want to risk getting a story from a certain person I hate).

The big issue is that every freaking year lately there's been some clusterfuck on the comics side of things come nomination time that would be a non-issue if they just got a mod who knew comics well and didn't apparently assume bad faith (hordes of unseen fans trying to sneak in MCU requests through their comics counterparts or using canon AUs where the characters are very different to sneak requests for unnommable main-verse characters; it's not like it doesn't happen but it's hardly endemic to the point they need to guard against it to the detriment of the majority of fans who're genuinely requesting those fandoms) on the fandom side right from the start.

This year it was banning everything Secret Wars related at the start, even if it was an AU or totally cut off from the main storyline, though at least they lightened up on that a little. Last year it was not allowing Hawkeye or Black Widow to be nominated as characters in their own series because their MCU counterparts were in too many stories. The year before that it was the Gwen/Clone Gwen clusterfuck in Ultimate Spiderman, where at first they didn't allow Gwen through because their research showed that it was "only" a clone of the character who showed up in the Miles series, and when fans came out of the woodwork to say they were the exact same character (the clone Gwen has all the memories of the original, the original is dead so they aren't developing into two different characters from the time of cloning) they bent and let her in but in a little dig of petty bullshit they did so as "Clone Gwen".

It's just getting to be a really ridiculous trend.

Just to add a note because I'm still bitter; the clone Gwen thing was exacerbated by the fact that they confused all Ultimateverse titles and Ultimates during approvals, combined them into one umbrella tag, and rejected Gwen because she didn't appear in Ultimates.

Last year it was not allowing Hawkeye or Black Widow to be nominated as characters in their own series because their MCU counterparts were in too many stories.

It wasn't quite that ridiculous, though it was still pretty bad. Clint and Natasha were disqualified because the characters appeared too many times in Marvel 616 fics. But the mods didn't apply filters when calculating how many times the characters appeared, so literally hundreds of the fics that put Clint and Natasha over their limits were incomplete and/or <1000 words.

And the part where Natasha and Clint couldn't be nominated in their own series was in fact terrible. (Well, a little less so for Hawkeye, imo, since that series actually features two Hawkeyes: the ineligible Clint and the eligible Kate Bishop. But for the Black Widow series, participants were mostly stuck requesting Natasha's cat; it was kind of pitiful.)

Wasn't there also an issue where a lot of the fics that counted against them (a bunch of Clint/Coulson at least) really were MCU stories that the authors also stuck in the 616 category to get more views, or am I remembering wrong?

AYRT

Oh, I'd forgotten about that! Personally, I think the double-tagged fics were less about getting additional hits (because how many more views are you realistically going to get by advertising to comics-only fans, rather than contenting yourself with the legion of MCU and MCU-plus-comics fans?) and more that their authors had borrowed a few elements from comics canon--e.g. Clint's deafness, or Pizza Dog, or the tracksuit mafia, or Natasha's cat--and injected them into their MCU fics.

Almost all of the ones I remember reading were definitely MCU fics with a tiny flavoring of comics canon, though. The main characters and their interrelationships and the referenced events were all straight out of the movies. I don't know how many double-tagged fics there were, but you're right that in a more just world, they wouldn't have been counted towards the Marvel 616 characters' totals.

How did the mods react to the filter part? That seems improper.

However if a character is legitimately over the limit, isn't that the way it is supposed to work?

The character filter rule never has yuletide exclusions applied to the limit. When I asked after it for RPF reasons they told me that it was because they couldn't add FF.N fics to the usual 1000 count, so it's only fair to include 300-word unfinished French fics.

I didn't argue because I feel like RPF is on a thin line with yuletide rules anyway, but: The reason you can't add ao3 and ff.n fics for rpf is because the fics can't exist on ff.n, so why do the fandoms need to be double penalized for having fewer places to host fic?

You still can't request Dick Grayson in his own series or Barbara Gordon in the Birds of Prey comics, because they are tagged in too many Batman fic. Which with Oracle!Babs in Birds of Prey - who isn't even comics canon anymore - hurts so bad, because she's rarely the focus of a story she's tagged in either.

I don't know about the issue other than that nomming the main character of my tiny non-comics fandom is impossible because there's another character with the same name in a more popular canon (the difference is like the difference between Teen Wolf the movie and Teen Wolf the series so they're the same in name only) and this is all because of comics rules.

It really isn't. Post to the evidence post and explain they're separate characters. And then post evidence to support your claim. If it's true, you'll get in. (Sherlock Holmes does, for God's sake, I don't believe your character wouldn't.)

+1

Hell, Napoleon and Illya got in for the MFU movie this year, even though the TV counterparts are over limit. (I personally did not find that person's evidence post very convincing, so you've definitely got a chance.)

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