It's always coalest before the dawn

[coalcube]

Posting deadline: 18th December at 9am UTC - may be the 17th in your time zone
Story reveal: 25th December
Author reveal: 1st January

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Comments

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

You're being indigenous. When I said it was "an arbitrary line", I wasn't in any way belittling the horrors the Nazis are responsible for and you know it (unless you didn't read the rest of my comment). What I mean is that making choices what's out of bounds and what's not, we have to make a moral value judgement on what's distasteful enough to warrant being not allowed. If we do that, I'm not suggesting that Nazis should in any way fall in the "that's okay" category - I'm just against judging allowed fandoms/characters/requests on a moral basis altogether. There have been mod choices to rule out nominations that were "in poor taste" before that I found ridiculous, so yes, it clearly IS a slippery slope. Just because it doesn't affect underage (which I personally DGAF about but would still hate to see banned) doesn't mean that the slippery slope doesn't exist.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Oh my God, dude. Not allowing RPF for mass genocide or Hurricane Maria or school shooters isn’t a slippery slope. It’s having basic respect for the RL victims of specific RL events who are still hurting. Fucking deal.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

... which is exactly the same argument people make about noncon and underage. Is it really different when it's a specific event and someone writes about Hurricane Maria instead of a fictional hurricane? What if we nominate a celebrity who's recently been implicated in sexual abuse for actor RPF?

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Is it really different when it's a specific event and someone writes about Hurricane Maria instead of a fictional hurricane?

Yes. Because real people died there. Real people had their lives destroyed. Real people lost loved ones. Real people had to live for months without clean water and go hungry because they didn’t have any food. Same thing with the Holocaust. Millions of people died there. Real people? Died. Thanks to the Nazis and their supporters.

And no, it’s no the same argument against underage or noncon. This isn’t a case of banning a hypothetical that does and could happen in RL from happening in fic with fictional characters. This is a case of not wanting to have national tragedies and atrocities against humanity that happened in living memory as RPF categories. It is taking a very specific tragedy that affected particular people IRL and making them into fanfic fodder. And for the Nazi request, it was making the Holocaust victims into fanfic fodder so the person could jerk off to the idea of them dying horribly. That is the problem. I give zero fucks about your noncon Thunderbirds request or underage Baby-Sitters Club fic.

As for your hypothetical about a celebrity implicated in sexual abuse, I don’t know, but I can’t see a nomination for Rose McGowan/Harvey Weinstein RPF going to well, though.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Your last point reminded of me when Paul Walker (RIP) died during the writing period. The mods offered carte blanche for author (and recips?) to default/get a PH if that bothered them. Some took it, some didn’t. Same again last year with the Spacey stuff, IIRC??

The mods care about the real fans involved and their feelings, and that was just about a fictional canon where the character lived on/didn’t commit a crime. This is always how Yuletide has been???? I prefer that way more to openness just for academic opennesses sake.

Seriously if you’re mad that people acknowledge that real life shit is real, go find a place where you don’t feel like you’re enabling censorship or whatever.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, they're being what?

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure they meant to say AYRT was being ingenuous.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Disingenuous, sorry. Half-asleep ESL typing on a phone and accepting autocorrect suggestions without thinking. But I think they got my point.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

There have been mod choices to rule out nominations that were "in poor taste" before that I found ridiculous

Which ones?

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

The anthropomorfic one with the hurricanes, for instance.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I nommed The Interview a few years back because I wanted slash of Seth Rogen and James Franco's characters and it got rejected. This was after the drama about serial killer RPF and nazi RPF so I assume it was rejected for being in bad taste, but I never bothered to contest it.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I doubt it was even bad taste they probably thought it was trolling with that other stuff in the tagset. If you had contested with your sign up they probably would have played it off as “whoops! It’s back in now. Sorry, don’t know how that happened!”

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, you're probably right. I had plenty of other things to request that year though so it was no biggie, just something I still remember from time to time because it's the only time my nom has been rejected.