yuletide_coal | It's always coalest before the dawn

It's always coalest before the dawn

Posting deadline: 18th December at 9am UTC - may be the 17th in your time zone
Story reveal: 25th December
Author reveal: 1st January

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No, thanks. I think this one works just fine.

https://nyupress.org/books/9781479857838/

It really doesn't, but if you're immune from Nazi's hate or a Nazi yourself, it sure is a cushy place to be. Long live the status quo!

I don't know how cushy it is for people immune from Nazi's hate or Nazis because I'm neither (queer person in a region where nationalist parties are gaining more and more traction). It's fucking uncomfortable from my POV, but I grew up in a place without any freedom of speech where saying the wrong shit would make you "disappear", so I firmly believe freedom of speech should be absolute.

But that's not even really the point because Yuletide is not a country and "freedom of speech" as such doesn't apply here. Mods can do whatever they want - it's their prerogative to issue house rules. That still doesn't mean I think Nazi or serial killer or specific disaster fic should be banned.

Think about the speech/fandom "rights" you spending your energy to defend. Those people don't need you stanning them. Doing shit just for the principal of it when they wouldn't do the same for you is asinine and not at all the same as being quiet when dissenters are being ghosted, which in a fannish context could be like when the rude Discord chick got dragged by morbane for being rude or when the mods screen autoscreen anoncomments. Save your energy for if someone actually gets banned unfairly. ~First, they came for the Nazis~ isn't actually a thing anyone who isn't a Nazi should worry about.

I firmly believe freedom of speech should be absolute.

Lol, well I guess we found where Alex Jones has been hanging out since he was banned from Twitter.

Look, people are allowed to have standards about what can be accepted in a holiday fic exchange. I’m not normally a “Why don’t you do it yourself if you think you can do better” type of person, but seriously, if you’re so ~morally opposed~ to the idea of banning Nazi or serial killer RPF, make an exchange that allows it. It would be a better use of your time than tirelessly defending the honor of Mazis and their admirers.

I firmly believe freedom of speech should be absolute.

The only people who like that are Fascists, because it means they get to be heard. Nobody else is out there saying stuff that needs absolute freedom of speech. Fascists will abuse the rope you've given them until they can hang you with it, and then it's no speech but their speech because everyone else is dead.

Speech is the most powerful weapon humans have. Of COURSE you need to control it because without controlling it, that is how everyone loses it. Would you rather some people have to shut up, or people are dead? Because that's literally what we're talking about here.

In America it's definitely people being dead. There aren't the laws against hate speech like you see in Germany, only ways to prosecute if someone is directly harmed by it.

Fascists want freedom of speech? In what world? They want freedom for *their* speech, not for anyone else's. That's the opposite of freedom of speech.

the only way their speech is heard is in a free speech context and that's why they abuse it. it's why germany, who had the biggest free speech wakeup call in recent history, clamped down on it. letting fascists have free speech led to them getting a big enough crowd to take power and put in laws so they could only have their speech. when you treat all speech like it is the same then it gives legitimacy to truly awful things and brings about bothsidesism. there is such thing as "the free market of ideas" when it comes to hate speech.

the breitbart and milos of the world circlejerk in happiness over liberals who fight for them to be heard.

sa

there is no such thing as*

Freedom of speech ends when incitemen to violence starts.

You fight them by writing letters and making phone calls so you don’t have to fight them with fists. You fight them with fists so you don’t have to fight them with knives. You fight them with knives so you don’t have to fight them with guns. You fight them with guns so you don’t have to fight them with tanks.

Yes, Europe with its speech restrictions is famously not having any problems with a resurgent fascist far right at the moment. It's great that this is a solution to fascism that totally works and is never used by the people in power to shut down the Left.

Aaaah, Europe, a place with uniform laws and approaches to political problems.

da

... and yet an almost uniform problem with right-wing extremists right now.

I disagree with AYRT that the restrictions on free speech cause this, but they're (by themselves) certainly not an effective solution to rely on. I wish it was so easy that you could just ban Nazi rhetoric and Nazis would disappear, but alas, it doesn't seem to be working that well.

Here's some free speech: Kill yourself.

Nah. That would make the Nazis (you know, the actual ones out there marching in the streets, not the ones wanking to Nazi fic) too happy.

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It's always coalest before the dawn

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