yuletide_coal | It's always coalest before the dawn

Ah yes, the Freedom of Speech argument. Try another one.

No, thanks. I think this one works just fine.

https://nyupress.org/books/9781479857838/

It really doesn't, but if you're immune from Nazi's hate or a Nazi yourself, it sure is a cushy place to be. Long live the status quo!

I don't know how cushy it is for people immune from Nazi's hate or Nazis because I'm neither (queer person in a region where nationalist parties are gaining more and more traction). It's fucking uncomfortable from my POV, but I grew up in a place without any freedom of speech where saying the wrong shit would make you "disappear", so I firmly believe freedom of speech should be absolute.

But that's not even really the point because Yuletide is not a country and "freedom of speech" as such doesn't apply here. Mods can do whatever they want - it's their prerogative to issue house rules. That still doesn't mean I think Nazi or serial killer or specific disaster fic should be banned.

Think about the speech/fandom "rights" you spending your energy to defend. Those people don't need you stanning them. Doing shit just for the principal of it when they wouldn't do the same for you is asinine and not at all the same as being quiet when dissenters are being ghosted, which in a fannish context could be like when the rude Discord chick got dragged by morbane for being rude or when the mods screen autoscreen anoncomments. Save your energy for if someone actually gets banned unfairly. ~First, they came for the Nazis~ isn't actually a thing anyone who isn't a Nazi should worry about.

I firmly believe freedom of speech should be absolute.

Lol, well I guess we found where Alex Jones has been hanging out since he was banned from Twitter.

Look, people are allowed to have standards about what can be accepted in a holiday fic exchange. I’m not normally a “Why don’t you do it yourself if you think you can do better” type of person, but seriously, if you’re so ~morally opposed~ to the idea of banning Nazi or serial killer RPF, make an exchange that allows it. It would be a better use of your time than tirelessly defending the honor of Mazis and their admirers.

I firmly believe freedom of speech should be absolute.

The only people who like that are Fascists, because it means they get to be heard. Nobody else is out there saying stuff that needs absolute freedom of speech. Fascists will abuse the rope you've given them until they can hang you with it, and then it's no speech but their speech because everyone else is dead.

Speech is the most powerful weapon humans have. Of COURSE you need to control it because without controlling it, that is how everyone loses it. Would you rather some people have to shut up, or people are dead? Because that's literally what we're talking about here.

In America it's definitely people being dead. There aren't the laws against hate speech like you see in Germany, only ways to prosecute if someone is directly harmed by it.

Fascists want freedom of speech? In what world? They want freedom for *their* speech, not for anyone else's. That's the opposite of freedom of speech.

the only way their speech is heard is in a free speech context and that's why they abuse it. it's why germany, who had the biggest free speech wakeup call in recent history, clamped down on it. letting fascists have free speech led to them getting a big enough crowd to take power and put in laws so they could only have their speech. when you treat all speech like it is the same then it gives legitimacy to truly awful things and brings about bothsidesism. there is such thing as "the free market of ideas" when it comes to hate speech.

the breitbart and milos of the world circlejerk in happiness over liberals who fight for them to be heard.

Re: ars_belli

(Anonymous) - 2018-10-23 22:25 (UTC) - Expand

Freedom of speech ends when incitemen to violence starts.

You fight them by writing letters and making phone calls so you don’t have to fight them with fists. You fight them with fists so you don’t have to fight them with knives. You fight them with knives so you don’t have to fight them with guns. You fight them with guns so you don’t have to fight them with tanks.

Yes, Europe with its speech restrictions is famously not having any problems with a resurgent fascist far right at the moment. It's great that this is a solution to fascism that totally works and is never used by the people in power to shut down the Left.

Re: ars_belli

(Anonymous) - 2018-10-24 07:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: ars_belli

(Anonymous) - 2018-10-24 08:37 (UTC) - Expand

Here's some free speech: Kill yourself.

Nah. That would make the Nazis (you know, the actual ones out there marching in the streets, not the ones wanking to Nazi fic) too happy.

+ 1

Pretty ironic, since the majority of _coal voted just today for the mods not to interfere with transwank and was all about Freedom of Speech.

DA but a majority in a space where you can't tell sameanoning from not and I bet most of coal just didn't say anything because they don't care either way. And AYRT may be in favor of active modding so how is this a "gotcha"? Hell, AYRT could be the mod.

I think Free Speech for Free Speeches sake is bullshit but idc if there's some nazis_anon comm I don't need to fuck with. I don't wank Nazi RPF in Yuletide, a space I am in. No irony required. I'll speak up for the latter to stay the rule of the land, and the members of nazis_anon can argue their right to exist to the DW owners.

Weirdly, a discussion community and a story exchange are different things. Just because you're really gung-ho about fighting TERFs on the internet doesn't mean that we should have to put up with white supremacists in our fun fic exchanges.

Giving TERFs and white supremacists a platform for their hateful rhetoric on a discussion community is kinda worse than letting them into fic exchanges, IMO.

TERFs and white supremacists have nothing in common.

They both need to be permanently eradicated from society.

+1

WTF.

Pretty sure both are transphobic af.

Re: ars_belli

(Anonymous) - 2018-10-24 14:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: ars_belli

(Anonymous) - 2018-10-24 14:25 (UTC) - Expand