yuletide_coal | It's always coalest before the dawn

It's always coalest before the dawn

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AYRT

I have no words. You are an idiot who can't read, and you are a racist who thinks genocide is a nifty little rhetorical trick that you can use in service of other arguments because hey, it's not like anyone targeted by the Nazis is actually still around, right?

AYRT

Oh FFS, none of this is about Nazis the 1930's, as there's no need to eradicate them because most of them are dead and buried or old enough that they will die soon enough. But if you look at current events, but there are white supremacists rising almost everywhere. And yes, a lot of the people they target are (luckily) still around. It's happening right now, and this "oh, no, don't say you want to eradicate them, this choice of words is really harmful" stance you're employing while they're out there, marching for a white, straight, abled Europe / USA and would be happy to eradicate people who don't fit the bill, is not helping.

It wouldn't have been weird if it had been just about Nazis, neo or otherwise, But when you post about wanting to eradicate the lesbians *cough* feminazis *cough* TERFs, of course people are going to look askance at you. Why do you think the gays and Jews are so sensitive about the eradication language to begin with?!

AYRT

Except I never conflated lesbians with TERFs and have literally never seen them conflated except in an effort to stir wank. I honestly didn't think "all TERFs need to DIAF" (to avoid "eradicated" since it's clearly a loaded term) as a controversial statement. Possibly because whenever I encountered the term TERF before, it always meant "cis women actively fighting against trans rights" and not "lesbians who don't want to have sex with a person who has or ever had male genitalia", and that's how I use it.

I believe that that's how you use it, but I don't believe that that's the only way you've seen anyone else use it.

I don’t hang the Confederate flag because I’m racist, I do it because it represents my Heritage!

Is this a misfire?

Maybe because I don't usually get involved in those kinds of discussions / wanks on anon memes or anywhere than among friends. I'm a lot more at home in gen vs. ship wank.

NA

Eh, I can believe that they're just too dense to have recognized it the other way before.

its because they clearly just want to stir wank. don’t let them redefine terf, and stop debating with them ffs there was a whole thread about not treating the nazi platform as equal to your own ideas because it makes it seem a legitimate peer. just let their stupid ass comments remain as them shouting nonsense into the wind with no one taking them seriously enough to reply

+1000000000000

don’t let them redefine terf

The horse is long out of the barn on that one. Again, if you want it to remain in usable discourse, you need to do a better job of calling out the people who use it to mean "dyke bitch" instead of making that the responsibility of us dyke bitches.

AYRT

Yeah, well, it's kinda hard not to engage when I seem to be the only one arguing my point. My immediate thought isn't that everyone else is quiet because "no one (is) taking them seriously enough to reply" but I'm starting to question if there's a fundamental flaw in what I'm saying.

The fundamental flaw is your equation of a genocidal ideology with feminism, however extreme.

0/10

Are you lost? Do you have a skating competition you're meant to be judging?

Are you new? Coalies do this all the time, coalie.

sa

I'm not trying to be glib here - that really is the problem. Civil rights movements throughout history have very often failed to be intersectional - feminism with women of color, Black and Chicano movements with women and gays, and so on - but equating TERFs and Nazis is very fundamentally asserting that fighting for women is just like fighting for white Aryans.

AYRT

I get what you're saying, but a) I didn't exactly equate them, I just said I wanted them both gone and b) I fundamentally disagree with the fact that TERFs are "fighting for women", seeing as there whole point is to throw whole groups of women who don't fit in under the bus. There's a difference between feminists failing to include other groups of women (which is bad enough but can come from a place of ignorance or lack of education rather than malice) and actively fighting against a specific group of women.

I'm not sure why you think that's what's happening here. Like, what exactly are you referring to here as "actively fighting against"? Single-sex rape shelters and sports teams?

Even if you're not "equating" them, this is some serious trivialization of Nazism and other white supremacy movements.

Stooooooooop trying to engage with these people. Don’t force the mod to freeze this shit or us to another post.

I see "TERF" as kind of like "Zionist", in that both terms do describe an actual political position, but those uses have been so eclipsed by their use as dogwhistles to refer to minority demographic groups that I'm just not going to trust anyone who describes other people as TERFs or Zionists, or talks about what they'd like to do to TERFs or Zionists.

0/10

Or maybe like antis' use of "pedophile" - not in that it's used as a dogwhistle for a minority demographic the way "terf" or "zionist" are, but in the sense that it's a convenient conversation-ender. "Are you saying you want all trans people to kill themselves???" in response to, like, "having a vagina isn't a social privilege" is the equivalent of "so you support child molestation???" in response to someone saying that slash fic is actually okay.

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It's always coalest before the dawn

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