yuletide_coal | It's always coalest before the dawn

... and yet some of you argue that it's not a slippery slope.

fuck off

Creative.

Seriously, though, the whole thread is people going on about how Ars Belli is such a special case because she's an actual confirmed Nazi and we need to shun her, and how banning Nazi RPF is not going to lead to banning anything else potentially controversial. Except apparently it does. Unless Aja is a confirmed serial killer somehow? Don't you see that this undermines the whole argument?!

ooh you really showed me :) and i'm impressed with your grammar given how deep your fingers have crawled into ars_belli's rectum

it does not undermine the whole argument because you're misunderstanding the whole argument. recent serial killer rpf wasn't rejected because nazi rpf was rejected. recent serial killer rpf was rejected because it was also tasteless and not suitable for yuletide.

Sorry if my grammar isn't up to your standards.

recent serial killer rpf was rejected because it was also tasteless and not suitable for yuletide.

Yes, and precisely that's what I'm arguing against. Don't you get that I DGAF about arse_beli? It doesn't matter if it's the banning of the Nazi RPF or the serial killer RPF that sets the precedent. Either way, shit that's labeled "tasteless" gets banned, which doesn't rule out that something "tasteless" you like might also get banned in the future.

We don’t care if you GAF about this imagined civil exchange rights violation. You’re basically an anti-anti at this point. Oh noes, hypothetical fandoms may be harmed at some time, even though there is no proof of it happening when noms happened in good faith by confirmed non-creeps! Better start wank for the tasteless frige, aka LITERAL NAZIs and evergreen wanker Aja (who was an original anti archetype during the CC Harry Potter days lmao like wtf) to be able to do whatever they want just so I can request my stuff, even though nobody has a problem with my stuff and it has been in Yuletide fine before. Just in case!

Newsflash, asshole: your stuff isn’t going to be banned. If it is, you can find a loophole like ars_belli and Aja do every year.

You’re basically an anti-anti at this point.

.... is this supposed to be an insult?

I don't want any kinds of moral boundaries on fanfic because they always depend on the person who sets them. But hey, it's cool if you do and if you think only "confirmed non-creeps" are allowed to make nominations now. That's not worrying at all.

You’re insane.

Just make your own Atrocities Exchange if you're so worried about this kind of shit not being allowed in Yuletide. No one will stop you.

NA

Look man, I kind of understand where you're coming from with the slippery slope thing, but the slope can slip the other way too. You can still defend people's ability to write controversial stuff in YT, without defending literal Nazi sympathizers who want sympathetic fic about actual historical WWII Nazis.

Out of all the "controversial" stuff in fandom, this is such a distant outlier. It's so distant you can't even *see* underage sex and incest ships from where ars_belli is standing. We're not losing anything by drawing a line in the sand that is so far away from anything worth defending.

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Is Aja participating this year? I don't recall seeing a letter.

Yeah, Aja's on the spreadsheet. Looks like no letter link.

Fandoms are Angels in America - Kushner (Broadway Cast 2018) RPF, Angels in America - Kushner, and Sakeru Gum "Long Long Man" Commercials.

Re: ars_belli

(Anonymous) - 2018-10-23 18:52 (UTC) - Expand

Either way, shit that's labeled "tasteless" gets banned

Nice scare quotes around tasteless. As writing Nazi RPF is some noble endeavor that’s being unfairly mislabeled.

Also, I’m guessing you’re willfully missing the point here, but the stuff that’s being banned isn’t fictional canons about Nazis or serial killers or about RL concepts with fictional characters. The banned stuff is RL events and tragedies that still has living victims or living relatives of victims, or, in the case of Nazis, the ideology and culture is seeing a greater revival in certain political climates. It’s not something that will ever truly die.

Things aren’t being banned “arbitrarily.” They are being banned because RL people are still being affected by these events.

I was born in the wrong era 😩😩😩😩😩😩😩💦💦💦💦💦 I can’t write about the [tries to read smudged writing on my hand] Pulse massacre because it happened too recently! Oh what I wouldn’t give to be born in 2200 so I could get the Yulefic of my dreams.

(I’m so tired of this concern trollie’s “No, I’m not pro-any of these things, it’s about the Ethics of Fanficfion Exchanges” bullshit. An exchange is a community, communities have rules and norms, if you don’t like them, make your own. The majority like the norms and would leave if they changed.)

They are being banned because RL people are still being affected by these events.

Oh, spare us the concern-trolling for the victims. RL people are affected by all kinds of awful events. I remember that person walking into an exchange post on FFA a couple of weeks back arguing that noncon shouldn't be allowed in the exchange because they were a rape survivor. Would you think that's justified too? Where does it stop? People are victims of cancer, natural disasters, domestic abuse, and so many other things that are not banned from Yuletide, nor should they be.

In case of Nazis, how is it any more respectful on the victims to write fic glorifying (possibly real life) Nazis from a fictional canon? That's why the ban is "arbitrary". Because you can't ban everything that affects RL people in a horrible way.

real life is where it stops lmao it isn’t that deep.

you can still write it for yourself (or like others have said, make your own exchange even.) but the majority of people don’t want to ask for or request it.

if it becomes such a big deal that everyone wants it and the mods won’t change the rules, yuletide will die and that’ll be the right course of action.

until then, you sound like someone who is mad they can’t nom a movie that comes out in december of 2020 in this years yuletide. it’s a small fandom! but there’s arbitrary dates rules so you’re sol. has nothing to do with the parameters of the exchange. make your own true yuletide and roll out the red carpet for nazis while you’re at it.

This isn’t about noncon. Do you actually understand that? Do you, like, legitimately understand that no one but you is talking about banning noncon from Yuletide? Noncon has nothing to do with this argument. It’s about banning Nazi RPF from Yuletide and disliking someone who literally masturbates to RL Nazis. That is the issue here. WTF is all of this, “Banning Nazis will inevitably lead to banning noncon”? It was never even on the fucking table.

Also, I love how you evidently think that it’s “concern-trolling” to care about Holocaust survivors or the people who are currently targeted by Neo-Nazis. Being worried about violent homophobia or racism or anti-Semitism is just “concern-trolling,” sure.

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lol. coalie, this is embarrassing. put the shovel down.

my underage noncon requests are in no danger. i'm really not worried about that.

Nazi RPF nominations wank was in 2015. Aja's serial killer noms were discussed at the time because those noms had already been banned at the time. Unless the slippery slope is also able to travel in time, I doubt it's something we need to worry about here.

http://failfandomanon.wikia.com/wiki/Yuletide_Wanks,_2014-2016

When were Aja's serial killer noms?

Slippery slope or not, I'm generally not a fan of banning anything at all inside the general eligibility of the exchange. I have the same issue with that horror exchange we recently discussed blanket banning RPF.

Make your own exchanges.

Slippery slope or not, I'm generally not a fan of banning anything at all inside the general eligibility of the exchange.

You might not have the most fundamentally basic of standards, but Yuletide does, and frankly, it’s all the merrier for banning genocidal white supremacists RPF.

The slope is horizontal.

Fictional disaster canons about a disaster that never happened are fine, fictional canons about a specific disaster are fine, but if you are going to ask for RPF about a recent disaster that affected people in Yuletide or the immediate friends/relations of those people WHILE ALSO having posts and communities open to the world to see about how much you loved those disasters happened, it’s not gonna happen.

ars_belli maybe could have gotten a pass if she kept her Nazi status locked away, but she had no shame. She didn’t feel awkward or scared about having terrible ideology and felt bold enough to ask for more of it. No thanks. Professionals are treated the same way. The movie about the Boston bombing by Marky Mark afaik got bad reviews because he has done terrorism fodder porn before and it was way, way too soon and meant to indugle people who are already anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant. The Gyllenhaal film about the survivor was also seen as too soon, but I think it was recieved well w/r/t the plot and no one thinks the people associated with that were seceretly aiming for the dame thing, because there is no history to support it.

Yuletide isn’t the government. They don’t have to allow everything in and the rules say so. You can make your own exchange! Nobody is losing their rights. That ars_belli isn’t banned, getting nonstop troll treats, being doxxed, etc should be proof that this “slope” isn’t that bad. It exists so the poor girl Brock Turner raped doesn’t have to see his name (or worse, fic about him that could be positive since mods can’t control optional details or what authors write) while looking in the tag set should she sign up for Yuletide.

No one is saying that the mods have to allow everything. But we can say we can disagree with something they do, right? I mean, to be fair, on the mod choices I disagree with banning Nazi RPF has a super low priority and I'm way more concerned with the request summary not being visible during sign-ups and the lack of ship matching because those affect me personally. Doesn't mean that I approve of banning anything, no matter how awful, for moral reasons.

You sound like those idiots who said legalizing gay marriage would lead to legal inter-species marriage. No, people won’t start marrying goats.