It's always coalest before the dawn

[coalcube]

Posting deadline: 18th December at 9am UTC - may be the 17th in your time zone
Story reveal: 25th December
Author reveal: 1st January

Yuletide Discord for Hippos. Google Group for PHs.

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Comments

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Look, if someone else were requesting RL perpetrators of mass genocide, I’m sure _coal would rightfully scorn them, too. But in the meantime, I’m fine with _coal hating someone who admires and masturbates to RL white supremacists who slaughtered millions of people, many of whom as still considered undesirable and lesser today because of their disabilities, sexuality, skin color, or religion, and still today live fear of violence against them because of continuing discrimination.

People who enjoy underage fic are not harming people IRL. But people who admire Nazis are admiring and perpetuating a very specific ideology of murder on a mass scale for a greater cause. They deserve far worse than just a bad rep in a fanfic exchange, and if you fail to understand that, maybe watch Night and Fog before you go around decrying how unfair it is that people are anti-Nazi.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

As an argument, I don't find that very different from antis going around crying "paedophilia".

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Lol, this “what about the antis?” whataboutism. What do you think people admire about Nazis if not their ideology and their mass slaughter of people they believed to be inherently lesser than them?

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

You might have a point if people were requesting RPF about, idk, pedophile priests without any pushback, rather than antis calling any gay ship "pedophilia" because they're homophobes. ars_belli literally likes Nazis, this isn't a case of people overreacting to someone's Star Wars fan preferences or anything.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

We pushed back on Aja’s Serial Killer RPF too so it isn’t like Yuletide only hates Nazis. (Not that hating only Nazis and groups that worked at that scale would be a bad place to draw the line wtf.)

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

... and yet some of you argue that it's not a slippery slope.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Someone with a harmless kink for dictatorships whose armies wear designer uniforms has a fuckton of fictional dictatorships with designer uniforms they can indulge that in. The argument equivalent to the anti position would be to say that's not allowed, either.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I was thinking this. Rooting for the Empire is one thing, stanning actual Nazis is another. (Even if your Empire rooting is a disguise for your nazi rooting, at least you are aware enough that you realize you can't go waving that flag in public.)

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Long experience in Star Wars fandom tells me that the line can get a little blurry for some people. I've definitely run into people where one starts to genuinely suspect that their admiration for the Empire has started to color their IRL perspectives about authoritarianism. (Especially Thrawn fans, for various reasons.) But the point remains generally true that stanning fictional fascists is clearly distinct from stanning real ones.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Nope, it's not at all like antis crying pedo.

It's more like if an individual with a dreamwidth full of pedo appreciation comms signed up for Yuletide and asked for fic about the murder of JonBenet Ramsay.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

What's hypocritical is talking about how horrible Nazis are and then requesting a bunch of problematic Japanese fandoms like Attack on Titan and Hetalia (not that they are Yuletide eligible, but that's almost worse because they are so large) because they care, or never bothered to find out about the horrors that happened to Korea, China, and much of SE Asia perpetrated by the Japanese. I mean, the stuff that went on in Korea is absolutely appalling, and based on the belief that the Japanese were racially superior to them. So yeah, it can be hypocritical.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh, phone typing... I meant "..because they don't care..."

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

+1

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

You know that Hetalia fandom has reams of darkfic exploring the terrible things countries had gotten up to historically right?

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Hetalia is loaded with nationalist Japanese propaganda, and have you seen it's portrayal of Korea? No. Just no. Read some fucking history outside of America/Europe for a change.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

So we have to give people who salivate (Remember their “ovaries go boom” tag) over literal Nazis the benefit of the doubt because other canons and fandoms are problematic? Is that what you’re saying? Because other canons are bad and people like those canons, we can’t draw the line at actual, literal Nazis?

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I just meant drawing the line at Nazis and ignoring other shit that essentially had the same affect during the same time period to countries and people not in Europe.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

we're talking about a real participant who has really nominated nazi RPF and really gets off on pictures of nazi hands, and when her nazi RPF got rejected, she continues to nominate fictionalized versions of nazis.

if anyone knows of another real participant who has behaved similarly wrt other recent atrocities, please do speak up. otherwise you're derailing into hypotheticals. we're not "ignoring other shit" in yuletide if nobody's actually doing it in yuletide.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

When someone signs up for Yuletide with a blog full of posts jerking it over real-life Imperial Japanese war criminals, we can ~finger wag~ at them too.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Onoes, problematic canons!! Totally the same thing as real-life Nazis (or their allies)!

You're whacked.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not referring to the canons, but the people who created them. They are Japanese Nationalists who glorify the past, and write shit that perpetuates those ideas of Japanese superiority over their neighbors and how they were victims because the west made them do it.

Then Japanaphiles get butthurt when you mention this shit, and then say things like, "get over it."

You wouldn't say that to a Holocaust survivor. We don't allow terrible people in rpf, or white suprematist shit, so why is it any different?

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Because if we started disqualifying canons because of creators being assholes we'd have nothing to write about.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

0/10

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

it’s japanophile

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

1- A whole country and all their citizens are not to blame for the shit specific governments chose to do. Particulaly not the people who weren't voting/not even born when those thigs happened (like I imagine whoever writes AoT is).

2- But they're not stanning actual war criminals. They're writing for fictional characters that mya have a similarity for RL stuff, but are not the same.