It's always coalest before the dawn

[coalcube]

Posting deadline: 18th December at 9am UTC - may be the 17th in your time zone
Story reveal: 25th December
Author reveal: 1st January

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Comments

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

For me, it's an issue of degrees of separation. Someone asking for "shady historical characters" (and I'm assuming when you say "characters" you mean fictional people in historical settings) or extreme underage might make me think "... welp, glad I didn't match to them!" But ars_belli tried to nominate Nazi RPF for Yuletide at least once, IIRC - when it's entirely possible that relatively direct descendants of their victims are also participating. That, to me, is very obviously more fucked up than either of your other hypotheticals, and is such a different scenario that I don't think "hypocritical" applies to being bothered by one and not the others.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

da

Not AYRT, but "shady historical characters" can very well mean "shady non-fictional historical characters". There's been plenty of fic about those in Yuletide (granted, a lot of it is one step removed because it's fic about canons about those characters, but not all of it).

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Well, and I suppose I should have added to my comment that that appears to be what ars_belli's doing this year, instead of RPF - but given their earlier behavior, where I might extend someone else the benefit of the doubt and assume they're genuinely interested in Conspiracy and Kenneth Branagh's portrayal ... I'm not inclined to do the same for ars_belli. Other people who are interested in fictional portrayals of historical figures don't have the track record they have; still not hypocrisy, to my mind.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

This.

To stick with the extra underage analogy, this would be like if someone asked for Toddler RPF and then also had icons of real little kids looking sexy, wrote comments about how they loved X real life famous toddler’s lips and hands and fantisized about them often, and belonged to comms of real kids looking super sexy where other fans talked about that stuff.

All of which ars_belli. At a certain point you need to call a duck a duck when it’s RPF stuff they’re stanning and not fictional or so removed from daily life it’s firmly historical. If you think “real nazis need to be punched irl”, can’t you see that shunning Nazis online is the spirtual sucessor to that?

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

No one said "boo" about Kennedy Family RPF being nominated, so this concern about descendants of victims also participating seems pretty selective.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I think that shit is so tacky and am now avoiding the person who requested it and will probably avoid any authors who write it, but they were public figures? The victims of Nazis and killers, not so much. Banning Kennedy Family RPF would be like the slippery slope nazidefenderforgreatjustice!coalie was implying.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, they were public figures, but so were the leaders of the Nazis. That itself isn't a good enough argument, logically.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I'm talking about the fame (and lack thereof) of the victims in Nazi RPF vs Kennedy assassination.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god, you thought I meant that the Kennedy family were the victims???? Read some fucking history.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Well, the two of them who were shot to death were murder victims, at least.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

You're a fucking idiot. No one nominated Mary Jo Kopechne, or the William Smith rape survivor, or anyone else who can be considered a direct victim of the Kennedys. The fact you don't like them or their politics is irrelevant.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

+ 1

If we're gonna play that game (they aren't my fandoms and I got no skin in this game), lets get rid of Royalty RPF too if you REALLY want to talk about a family that has a string of vis a vis victims o_O

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

If only “direct victims” count and killing millions in war is just “politics,” what’s your objection to the Nazis again? Dipshit.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Dude, I don't see a single person in this thread defending Nazis. You can be against banning shit without being actively in favor of it.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Ah yes, the Freedom of Speech argument. Try another one.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

No, thanks. I think this one works just fine.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

https://nyupress.org/books/9781479857838/

It really doesn't, but if you're immune from Nazi's hate or a Nazi yourself, it sure is a cushy place to be. Long live the status quo!

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know how cushy it is for people immune from Nazi's hate or Nazis because I'm neither (queer person in a region where nationalist parties are gaining more and more traction). It's fucking uncomfortable from my POV, but I grew up in a place without any freedom of speech where saying the wrong shit would make you "disappear", so I firmly believe freedom of speech should be absolute.

But that's not even really the point because Yuletide is not a country and "freedom of speech" as such doesn't apply here. Mods can do whatever they want - it's their prerogative to issue house rules. That still doesn't mean I think Nazi or serial killer or specific disaster fic should be banned.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Here's some free speech: Kill yourself.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

+ 1

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Pretty ironic, since the majority of _coal voted just today for the mods not to interfere with transwank and was all about Freedom of Speech.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

DA but a majority in a space where you can't tell sameanoning from not and I bet most of coal just didn't say anything because they don't care either way. And AYRT may be in favor of active modding so how is this a "gotcha"? Hell, AYRT could be the mod.

I think Free Speech for Free Speeches sake is bullshit but idc if there's some nazis_anon comm I don't need to fuck with. I don't wank Nazi RPF in Yuletide, a space I am in. No irony required. I'll speak up for the latter to stay the rule of the land, and the members of nazis_anon can argue their right to exist to the DW owners.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Weirdly, a discussion community and a story exchange are different things. Just because you're really gung-ho about fighting TERFs on the internet doesn't mean that we should have to put up with white supremacists in our fun fic exchanges.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, this. I thought that was in extremely bad taste and I think the mod made a mistake of letting that through.

Re: ars_belli

[(Anonymous)]

There were so many characters nominated in the Kennedy RPF tag set that there's plenty of potential for people to request nothing to do with the assassinations. Do you want the mods to monitor and approve individual optional details? The person requesting post-assassination fic even acknowledges in their letter that it's something borderline inappropriate to request and gives potential writers an out to write something different.

I think that, while kind of gross, that request is different case from a mod oversight point of view to someone who, based on the rest of their online profile, sexually fetishizes Nazis and has made a nomination for "World War II RPF" with a tag set full of Nazis.