Rudolph the red-nosed dentist

[heavensqueen]

Writing post : http://yuletide-coal.dreamwidth.org/6728.html

Other useful links:
2016 Timeline : https://yuletide-admin.dreamwidth.org/28822.html
Collection: http://archiveofourown.org/collections/yuletide2016

 

Letters post: http://yuletide.livejournal.com/1274815.html
Letters DB: http://www.dennis-sellers.com/yuletide/index.html
Treat spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Bv9vJXykH9BUgn6q5DIBliBgMWzlVpXiB9d1lNoub4/edit?usp=sharing

Yuleporn: http://yuletide.livejournal.com/1276881.html
Crueltide: http://yuletide.livejournal.com/1274987.html
Two for One: http://yuletide.livejournal.com/1278973.html

Comments

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

Aw. :( That is sad.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

NA

If the person only leaves one sentence or a paragraph comments then I get it. If they're one of the ones who leave a full comment (or more) even when they get multiple gifts then AYRT is denying themselves for no reason!

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

I agree.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

Sentence sure, but a paragraph may well be a very good and reasonably long comment.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

a paragraph may well be a very good and reasonably long comment.

not really but OK.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

Precisely what minimum word count do you need, then?

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

like the anon you replied to said, close to a full comment aka 4300 characters or multiple comments.

and before you ask, one sentence is minuscule, one paragraph is small, multiple paragraphs is medium. the single full comment is long and multiple comments are very long.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

NA

o.O I can't figure out whether you're sarcastic or serious. Oh God, I hope you're sarcastic.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

they said that one paragraph was a "reasonably long comment". i disagree with that and restated what length a comment needs to be in order for it to be "long" in my book.

comments are comments and there isn't an adjustment (e.g. 3k is long for trick or treat fic since the expected minimum is only 300 words) used in order to categorize them via length. if one paragraph is "reasonably long" then what are two paragraphs, three, a full comment, etc?

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

To me, "reasonably long" reads as as qualified as "quite long" or "rather long" would be, so somewhat short of long. But people break up paragraphs in different watys. What is one person's paragraph may be another person's six.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

given that an average paragraph equals 5 or 6 sentences on average, breaking that up into two or three paragraphs still would be small for me. you can pad them by pasting in lines of the story that you love but it still hits medium as maximum imo.

What is one person's paragraph may be another person's six.

it was considering the 'given that some people don't use line breaks or write really long sentences' that i said 4.3k characters would be "long". if you're only writing two paragraphs but you've hit 3k characters then that would be a medium/long comment.

this comment is 162 words/906 characters and 4 paragraphs long but it's still small despite me padding it with your own words. i dont think there's anything wrong with short comments, but it's only when compared to a single sentence that this could ever be seen as "reasonably long". 4.3k word and multiple length comments exist. those are long.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

*character

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

DA agrees with you. If I received a comment that was as long as this comment I'm replying to, I would consider it an adequate comment and be satisfied with it (at least for a fic under 5k - for a fic over 5k I'd think that my recip could have made a bit more of an effort). But I would not think that I just received a really long comment.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

This is clearly highly subjective. Personally, I think feedback the length of your comment would definitely be long.

To me, one sentence is short, several sentences / one paragraph is average length, multiple paragraphs is long. Anything beyond (a "full comment" or even multiple) is... crazy excessive, in my book. In all my years of reading fic, I've seen that sort of feedback maybe a dozen times in the wild in total, and it generally makes me go o.O.

I mean, I'm sure there are people who enjoy leaving or receiving 4k word comments, but I'd find it fairly intimidating as a writer - and unless the story is 50+k or so, I don't really feel it's justified. Then again, I did once leave a (for me, incredibly long) 500 word comment on a 300 word story because it made me so happy, so just comparing story/comment length is clearly not an adequate measure either.

TL;DR: What's considered a "long" and a "short" comment depends very much on your personal definition.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

NA

But we're talking about Yultide here. People write 1k+ *fics* for characters that showed up in half a sentence or for commercials. I understand your POV but how is it any less o.O to want fic that "excessively", or to sign up to write that fic. If you're in a small fandom with nobody else to talk to and someone gives you any number of k then you really can't see why or how someone could have a lot to say about the fandom and the fic?

Personally I o.O when someone requests a fandom of one and all they can say is a line or two. Upgrade that to a full O.O if they only have that much to say on a 3k+ fic. But that's just my POV! I can see how it's intimidating but it's no different than wanting to write fanfic in the first place. You saw something you liked and you liked it so much you wrote about it. They liked your fic so much they commented on it. Not everybody has this feeling (lol which is why lots of people find the idea of spending time writing fanfiction for free as insane).

That aside...even though it's long *for you*, there really isn't any subjectivity. That's why you had to qualify your statement as "for you". For someone who never comments at all a single comment = super long. That doesn't make it long. Comments don't exist in a vacuum and something that nearly hits the character limit or takes multiple comments is a long comment. You can squabble over where the line between 'small' and 'medium' but long isn't really up for debate even if you think long = excessive.

Your short/medium comments are never gonna get confused for a long one.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

You seem overly invested in this.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

+ 1

I write multiple comments really easily. When my comment comes in under the 4.3k character limit I feel like it's short for me. I know that it isn't actually a short comment!

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Of course feedback that spans multiple comments is "long". But I balk at the idea that a comment only starts being long at 4k words.

That's like saying fic is only long when it's over 20k. You might feel that way, and you're perfectly entitled to do so, but others will consider a 5k story longfic. The same goes for comments.

No one is going to contest that a three word reply is short and that a "full comment" is long, in the same way that no one's going to contest that a 1001 word Yuletide fic is short and a 50k epic is long, but most things in-between are open to interpretation, and just because you say there is "no subjectivity" doesn't make it true.

Personally I o.O when someone requests a fandom of one and all they can say is a line or two.

I don't feel like someone needs to be effusive in order to convey their thanks. I mean, it's okay if they want to ramble on about their love for the ship or the fandom for a while, but I certainly don't side-eye anyone for not wanting to engage in that, especially not with an anonymous author.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I just honestly don't get how anyone has that much feedback to give (especially in a Yuletide context where it's considered kind of rude to leave anything but positive feedback) unless the story was very, very long. Like, even if I think a person's characterizations were spot on, there's only so many words I can use to say that without looking like a kid trying to pad their essay to reach minimum word count.

With a story, if you have even an inkling of an idea or a character, I find that it's easy to write something 1k+. But feedback is different, and it's something I have trouble really going on and on and on about. Crafting your own world and plotline is different than writing a personal feedback note where you're only reacting to what's there. I spend a long time on my comments but can't imagine needing more than one comment's length just for feedback (unless I'm copypasting half the damn story into the comment and giving feedback to each individual line).

I'd personally consider a few paragraphs of feedback long. It is definitely subjective.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

NA

Sometimes I leave long comments (i.e. over AO3's word limit), especially on gifts for me. That's because I genuinely got really excited and wanted to somehow try to convey how much I loved the fic, and express my gratitude to the writer. Again, especially on gifts, because that usually means it was a super-rare fandom, and that no one else might even read it. I don't do it because I "enjoy" leaving long comments; that has absolutely nothing to do with it. I didn't realize that there were people like you, who'd think it was "crazy excessive" and that not "justified". Shit, I mean, if I knew the writer felt that way I'd of course try my best to be brief! Now I'm gonna be second-guessing my comments for a while :\

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

Please don't second-guess your comments. Most writers enjoy getting long comments and don't judge their commenters for being "excessive". It's such a weird idea to me that thanking someone profusely for writing a fic in a small fandom, or even for writing any fic, is now excessive.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

IMO, as far as comments go, if I got a comment that was that length? I'd think it's long and be perfectly happy. A lot of people just aren't good at extended tl;dr gushing, and that's okay. That doesn't mean they're bad or mediocre commenters. Many people are capable of leaving absolutely lovely comments without needing a full comment or more.

Something like "Ooh, I liked this, your descriptions are lovely, thank you" would be a short and relatively unsatisfying comment, but a 2-4 paragraph comment is perfectly capable of containing a good description of what the reader specifically liked about your story. Especially if the story is under 5k words long.

IDK, I feel like every year the standards for what a "good comment" is go up and now you need to leave a detailed line-by-line analysis of the story or certain writers won't consider you worth their time.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

no where did i mention anything about "good comments".

my comments average about three paragraphs of 3-4 run on sentences for most yuletide fics. i'm a medium length commenter that can turn a little on the longer side if i pull out one or more passages to quote.

all my comment did was address length. and how that wasn't a long comment. no judgment on if they were exceptional, mediocre, or bad. just pure character length. i never talked about the content of comments beyond original words and quoting.

i'm not wanking about quality vs. quantity of comments and reading through the thread since i left, nobody else is either besides the anon who things long comments are effusive and the anon who doens't like empty comments.

you're gonna have to reply to someone else in order to get wank over this. i'm someone who would turn off comments altogether if it wouldn't cause wank itself. long or short: i don't care about them, i'm merely speaking to the fact that a long comment is long and a short comment is short, end of.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not denying myself anything. I'm just petty because I never get treats, so I don't think others should get multiple.

Re: Ways in which you are petty

[(Anonymous)]

If you're bitter that other people get treats when you don't and you don't write treats to see people's super happy reactions, why bother writing treats at all?

What are you getting out of it when neither side of the equation seems to soothe your soul? A place on the multiple treaters list which will hopefully land you a treat sometime in the future thanks to goodwill associated with your name?